Appellation Versus Vineyard Designation: An interview with John Bargetto

by Laura Ness, for AppellationAmerica.com
October 12, 2006

"Some might think areas like Soquel, Green Valley, Corralitos and Woodside have

sufficiently distinctive characteristics to warrant sub-AVAs. Frankly,

I think vineyard designates should take care of these issues."

Bargetto Winery has been a fixture in the Santa Cruz Mountains since the 1920s. It is a family owned and operated winery established by brothers John and Philip Bargetto, who emigrated to the US from Piedmonte, Italy in the late 19th century. In 1918, the Bargettos established the winery on the banks of the Soquel River, in the town of Soquel, near the sea coast, where third generation winemaker John Bargetto tells me, “it’s cool enough to crush, but a bit too cool to grow.”

Today, the third generation of Bargettos source fruit from several areas of California, and have three wine labels: Bargetto for the classic Cabs, Merlots, Chards etc., La Vita for the Italian varietals that continue their family heritage, and Chaucer for their fruit wines.

In the past, Bargetto has been best known for their fruit wines -- (they are really excellent: I love the raspberry) -- and for their affordable staples from Monterey County. Of late, however, they’ve been focusing increasingly on their premium wines, which now come exclusively from their estate vineyard, the Regan Vineyard in Corralitos. Director of winemaking, John Bargetto tells Laura Ness that all the wines in their Santa Cruz Mountains portfolio now come from this estate vineyard. The 40-acre property in the southern part of the Santa Cruz Mountains appellation enjoys a cool, coastal climate overlooking the Monterey Bay. Days are warm, not hot, with a typical morning fog that burns off around 11AM. The perfect climate for Pinot, and as it turns out, superb for Pinot Grigio. It is also something of a wonder spot for that current whipping boy varietal, Merlot.

Laura Ness (LN): A lot of your fruit comes from out of the appellation. When you decided to plant the Regan vineyard, what drove the decisions on what to plant?

JB: Bargetto produces its best wines from its estate, Reagan Vineyard John Bargetto. Our finest wines now come from Regan Vineyard. We are very proud to have all the wines with a Santa Cruz Mountains designation coming from estate-grown fruit. The vineyard is 50 acres, with about 40 acres planted now. It is in the Green Valley area of Corralitos, at about 600 feet elevation. It’s a sunny hilltop that overlooks the Monterey Bay. We began planting in 1992.

LN: What was your first choice of varieties to plant?

JB: We decided to plant Chardonnay right away. It was hugely popular at the time, and we knew this climate would allow Chardonnay to do very well. We planted the Mt. Eden clone from Corton-Charlemagne in Burgundy. Paul Masson brought cuttings over from France in the late 19th century and planted them at what is now the Mountain Winery. We got the cuttings from the Cinnabar vineyard when they decided to pull theirs out. It hasn’t migrated much throughout the appellation, but it can be found at Mt. Eden Vineyards. I’m not sure where else.
Author’s note: Silver Mountain Vineyards is among the other locations where you’ll find the Mt. Eden clone today. Winemaker Jerold O’Brien reports it is extremely low-yielding, with only about one to two tons per acre. It has tiny berries and intense, weighty-on-the-palate fruit. He notes that wines from this clone are extremely age-worthy, and in fact, do not often begin to express themselves until 3 to 5 years in the bottle. So never, never assume that a 2001 or 2002 Chardonnay from the Santa Cruz Mountains is “over the hill.” Au contraire, it may just be getting out of the flats and beginning its long slow climb up the hill.

LN: What are the characteristics of the Mt. Eden clone?

JB: In contrast with the more widely planted Clone 4, also called the North Coast clone, the Mt. Eden clone is richer, more flavorful, tends to have minerally characteristics and ripens quite late. We typically pick around October 15. The berries are quite small, as are the clusters.

LN: What else have you planted?

JB: We also wanted something Italian in the white department, so we planted Pinot Grigio. It is a beautiful wine and it keeps winning lots of awards (including a Gold at the recent Santa Cruz Mountains Wine Competition).

LN: Where does La Vita fruit come from?

JB: The Italian varietals that go into La Vita are all planted at the Regan Vineyard. We have Dolcetto and Nebbiolo: great varietals from the Piedmonte region as well as Refosco from northern Italy. We vinify them separately and then blend them to make our high end La Vita blend. I think you’ve sampled it.

LN: In fact, I love it. I reviewed La Vita for Appellation America. It’s an amazingly powerful wine.

Bargetto produces a series of wines utilizing classic Italian grape varieties such as Nebbiolo (pictured below)

JB: Thank you!

LN: What about Pinot Noir? You’re making some righteous Pinot from this vineyard also.

JB: Yes, we have three clones of Pinot: Pommard, Martini and Dijon 115.

LN: No 666 or 777?

JB: No. We’re traditionalists.

LN: Can you tell me what the characteristics of these three clones are and why you chose them?

JB: I’d say our favorite by far is the Pommard. It is our “steady 350 hitter,” to use baseball parlance. In fact, we’re adding more of it. We like it because it always ripens well and it has a bigger mouthfeel. It’s more intense on the palate. Some years, we like the Dijon better. It can have a distinctive bacon flavor along with ripe cherry fruit, a very complex flavour.

LN: If you could do it over again, would you change your mind on what you planted? If so, what would you plant instead of or in addition to?

JB: Well, let’s talk about Merlot! We planted a lot of it, nearly 13 acres, in the 90s. This was when wine was all about Chardonnay and Merlot. Merlot was the “it” wine. We were so happy with the results of our first planting, that we went ahead and planted a whole second section. We were thrilled with the way the fruit came out: no green, weedy flavors and off colors that are more typical of Merlot from cool climate areas, like parts of Monterey county. This had great ripeness and it was very distinctive. The color is great: it’s a deep, deep garnet. There is no fading from the time it is pressed. The natural acidity that is characteristic of this region complements the nose of ripe blackberry and plums. The mouthfeel is supple, both from the natural fruit and the oak program.

You asked what we would have planted instead. Well, we are in the process of grafting over a good deal of Merlot and Chardonnay right now so we are up to 8 acres of Pinot. We intend to add another 2 acres. Talk about the “Sideways” impact!

LN: How would you describe the characteristics of your estate Merlot vs other Merlots you've had from, say, the Central Coast?

JB: Not to take anything away from our Central Coast Merlot, which is from Santa Clara County, as it’s our best selling red, but there are clear differences. I would say our estate SCM is bigger-bodied and bigger in structure, and it’s built to age. The Central Coast wine is medium-bodied with bright fruit, and it is meant for earlier consumption. It certainly doesn’t have the aging potential of the estate.

LN: Do you think your Merlot is representative of Merlot grown in the Santa Cruz Mountains Appellation?

JB: It’s been a while since I’ve tasted any examples from other Merlot producers in the appellation, but I would think, based on my experience with both Merlot and Cabernet in this cool climate, that Merlot is better suited to this climate. We can typically get Merlot ripe before the threat of October rains. Not so with Cabernet. In the years when it rains in October, Cabernet might never make it. You might even say that “Merlot could be our Cabernet” in this appellation.

LN: Speaking of Cab, your Reserve Merlot is 15% Cabernet Sauvignon. Where is that fruit from?

Bargetto’s Regan Vineyard Merlot is built to age

JB: It’s from the Martin Ray vineyard above Saratoga.

LN: What are the characteristics of that fruit that made you choose it?

JB: It’s very dense, with big, briary, rich fruit. We like it for its density and ability to age.

LN: Over the years, would you say the SCM appellation is becoming more unified in its message or more diverse?

JB: We are definitely more unified. Some ancient history here. 15 years ago there were two organizations representing the wineries here: basically, the “mountain people,” and the “lowlanders,” who called themselves the Santa Cruz County Winegrowers.

When I got out of college, I said to my brother, “This is crazy having two groups. We need to get together.” Fortunately, we were able to pull the groups together with the help of Lorraine Schumacher (of Hallcrest Vineyards), Bob Mullen from Woodside and Thomas Fogarty. The turning point came in 1988 at what was called the Flyshacker meeting, where basically we overcame the objections of some of the “smaller fry” that were stopping progress. What came out of that was eventually known as the Santa Cruz Mountains Wine Growers Association. I believe there is strength in unity.

LN: Well, you set me up for the next question! Do you see and potentially support any efforts to sub-divide the appellation?

JB: You touch on a very interesting subject -- the creation of sub-appellations here. We already have Ben Lomond Mountain. Do we need more? My feeling is that it’s hard enough to educate people about the wonders of the Santa Cruz Mountains, without having a lot of sub-appellations.

LN: Which areas would have the greatest potentials to secede and why?

JB: Oh no! Please, let’s not talk secession! I’ve been to Appomattox! We don’t need a Civil War here!

LN: Ok, sorry, that was a little harsh! Do you think creating new AVAs might help consumers?

JB: Some might think areas like Soquel, Green Valley, Corralitos and Woodside have sufficiently distinctive characteristics to warrant sub-AVAs. Frankly, I think vineyard designates should take care of these issues. That is one of the reasons why we really emphasize the Regan Vineyard in our Santa Cruz Mountains portfolio at Bargetto. My feeling is that we need to promote a unified message about the appellation first and then educate people on the specific vineyard characteristics. I vote for more vineyard designates!

LN: What about conducting more tastings? Wouldn’t that create some consumer interest in the differences between vineyards?

JB: Perhaps, we should just get together after harvest and round up all the Merlots we can find from the appellation and do a blind tasting.

LN: We should do that! It’s high time Merlot stopped being slammed every which way, including… Well, never mind. You can count me in! I’ll be eagerly awaiting that tasting and will report back on the outcome.

Miles, if you’re out there, you’ll want to tune in for that one…

~ Laura Ness, Regional Correspondent – Santa Cruz Mountains